Comments on: Misunderstanding Inquiry http://www.open-secrets.com/observations/misunderstanding-inquiry/ Exploring the Obvious Sat, 06 Mar 2010 14:31:12 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: haj1155 http://www.open-secrets.com/observations/misunderstanding-inquiry/comment-page-1/#comment-458 haj1155 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:32:55 +0000 http://www.open-secrets.com/?p=943#comment-458 Kathy I was up most of the night with where I am on object relations and inquiry = it seems to be an issue of space versus structure. I notice that I have a growing tendency or impulse to move toward space instead of engaging specific object relations. This is not a rejection of the object relation or even a lack of interest in the content or history, but rather a movement toward not leaving the ground of being. It seems the pattern is shifting from working through something toward presence to remaining in presence and engaging from there. From this perspective, I am noticing the endless line of things that want to engage me and pull me from space and presence. There is a lot of drag on me from them individually and collectively to remain in a structured state. Space seems to be asserting itself these days Kathy
I was up most of the night with where I am on object relations and inquiry = it seems to be an issue of space versus structure. I notice that I have a growing tendency or impulse to move toward space instead of engaging specific object relations.

This is not a rejection of the object relation or even a lack of interest in the content or history, but rather a movement toward not leaving the ground of being. It seems the pattern is shifting from working through something toward presence to remaining in presence and engaging from there.

From this perspective, I am noticing the endless line of things that want to engage me and pull me from space and presence. There is a lot of drag on me from them individually and collectively to remain in a structured state.

Space seems to be asserting itself these days

]]> By: Katherine L. Ziegler http://www.open-secrets.com/observations/misunderstanding-inquiry/comment-page-1/#comment-457 Katherine L. Ziegler Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:33:01 +0000 http://www.open-secrets.com/?p=943#comment-457 John, I am blown away by this post. Very useful to me in my own process to have this fresh take on such issues. To one of your points: One friend of mine who left the work several years ago went to work with a spiritual teacher functioning on his own (= not having trained other teachers) who offers what seems to me a much simpler take on presence and stepping beyond one's old identities. One of her objections to the DA was its many metaphorical/literal descriptions of elements of essence using for instance color, which as she angrily said, "I've never seen!" Another was the many DA books using what I call discriminating intelligence and a grasp of the many shades of human experience along this path. There were strong overtones of what seemed to me outrage at narcissistic insult in her angry rejection of the DA, including what looked like a sense of being intellectually surpassed by the head elements of the work. Three others I've known who have left the DA showed a similar pattern. I'm sad to see my friend still suffering actively from a pervasive sense of emptiness, frailty, fear, and self-devaluation, while continuing to grasp for old object-relations and outworn identities. Her moments of transcendence experienced with this other teacher never seem to translate into the the ever-strengthening presence and, yes, developing capacities in the world which I see in my Ridhwan friends. Even though we all of course still cycle through these old structures, the cycles seem to me way shorter and more fruitful in terms of learning. So yeah, I am partly looking at the instrumental benefits of this work! But I also find it lets me off absolutely none of the challenges and sufferings of life, in fact rubs my nose in them more often than not. So that leaves only the love of it, my personal affinity and sense of its deep and far-reaching meaning. thanks again, John-- Kathy John, I am blown away by this post. Very useful to me in my own process to have this fresh take on such issues.

To one of your points: One friend of mine who left the work several years ago went to work with a spiritual teacher functioning on his own (= not having trained other teachers) who offers what seems to me a much simpler take on presence and stepping beyond one’s old identities. One of her objections to the DA was its many metaphorical/literal descriptions of elements of essence using for instance color, which as she angrily said, “I’ve never seen!” Another was the many DA books using what I call discriminating intelligence and a grasp of the many shades of human experience along this path. There were strong overtones of what seemed to me outrage at narcissistic insult in her angry rejection of the DA, including what looked like a sense of being intellectually surpassed by the head elements of the work. Three others I’ve known who have left the DA showed a similar pattern.

I’m sad to see my friend still suffering actively from a pervasive sense of emptiness, frailty, fear, and self-devaluation, while continuing to grasp for old object-relations and outworn identities. Her moments of transcendence experienced with this other teacher never seem to translate into the the ever-strengthening presence and, yes, developing capacities in the world which I see in my Ridhwan friends. Even though we all of course still cycle through these old structures, the cycles seem to me way shorter and more fruitful in terms of learning.

So yeah, I am partly looking at the instrumental benefits of this work! But I also find it lets me off absolutely none of the challenges and sufferings of life, in fact rubs my nose in them more often than not. So that leaves only the love of it, my personal affinity and sense of its deep and far-reaching meaning.

thanks again, John–

Kathy

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